True video scaler

Hi,

    ADV8005 can meet most of your requirement. None of our video part can do scaling, ADV8005 is the only part that can do scaling .

    Please note that it will not convert analog to digital but it has 12-bit video DACs provide support for composite (CVBS), S-video (Y/C), and component (YPrPb/RGB) analog outputs in either SD, ED, or HD video formats up to 1080p.

     Different model of ADV8005 Purchase related details are provided at https://www.analog.com/en/products/adv8005.html#product-samplebuy Here you can find the different documentation of ADV8005  - Register Map/Functionality and features/ Application Note.

     Here Advantiv EVAL-ADV8005-SMZ Video Evaluation Board  you can find the attachments of user guide and software for programming the ADV8005.

Note: ADV8005 dual HDMI transmitters and a 6-DAC encoder with SD and HD support. It offers video de-interlacing and scaling.

 ADV8005/8003 video signal processor which does scaling as well as frame rate conversation.

Thanks,

Poornima

hello,

I have these questions:

1- what price is expected for low quantities such as 20, 50 or 100?

2- do I need to have hdmi license to buy it and make products with it?

3- I don't know how to use an FPGA and not willing to. can I use this device without fpga?

4- I read that it allows RGB, YPbPr, S-video inputs.. but you say it doesn't allow analog to digital conversion. can you clarify.

5- how many frames of lag is there after final output of converting 240p\480i to 1080p and 4k?

6- as i understood from datasheet, I need a simple small microcontroller like PIC16 to output just I2C signal to control the ADV8005. So any command needed just sent from it like this?

7- I don't have knowledge in DDR2 RAM or digital stuff like eeprom, so do I need to have extensive knowledge of how these work or just wire them as needed?

8- I want to connect analog video signals such as RGB, RGBHV, YPbPr, S-video, and composite then get a scaled HDMI signal to 1080p and 4k. do I need a video digitizer IC to convert these analog videos first or just connect them directly?

9- in case of analog input such as S-video to be converted to analog video form of RGB... will it happen in analog-to-analog form or it must be converted to digital first? how much lag?

10-it is mentioned that it takes 2 digital video format, one is TTL with many bits and the other is serial video. what is the difference between them knowing that both are HDMI?

sorry for long questions. I don't think any other products are available to do so without FPGA. Also, can you give me links to some products using this IC on the market? just to see their specs and prices.

regards

Hi,

Please find my below comments,

 1- what price is expected for low quantities such as 20, 50 or 100?

        Please contact your local ADI FAE(Salesteam) for cost and other details.

  2- do I need to have hdmi license to buy it and make products with it?

         HDMI license is not required for transmitter device.But you would need to be an HDMI adopter regardless, depending on what you are trying to do and you must be an HDMI adopter to buy any AD part which is HDMI capable.

Please check here for the terms:

HDMI: www.HDMI.org

HDCP: www.digital-cp.com

3- I don't know how to use an FPGA and not willing to. can I use this device without FPGA?

       FPGA used on the EVAL-ADV8003-SMZ/EVAL-ADV8005-SMZ evaluation boards is just to provide more flexibility on the routing of TTL (i.e. non-HDMI) signals to/from the ADV8003/ADV8005.

       Please note that FPGA is just for configuring how the TTL bus is routed between ADV8005, ADV7842, and a header. It also does no processing of video of any kind.

4- I read that it allows RGB, YPbPr, S-video inputs.. but you say it doesn't allow analog to digital conversion. can you clarify.

       Yes, When you see the functional block diagram of ADV8005, it does not have any block to receive the analog input.

5- how many frames of lag is there after final output of converting 240p\480i to 1080p and 4k ?

       Please refer hardware manual of ADV8005 section 3.2.1.5 & 3.3.1.5 - Frame Latency for various formats and operating modes.  
             Latency is dependent on too many parameters to give a calculated delay for each configuration. The best solution is to set up the exact configuration you want and read back the latency registers to determine what the true delay is.  This can be done on our evaluation board.

6- as i understood from datasheet, I need a simple small microcontroller like PIC16 to output just I2C signal to control the ADV8005. So any command needed just sent from it like this ?

         Yes you need a microcontroller to control the ADV8005 .Here your microcontroller will act as a Master for initiating the I2C Read/Write commands.

7- I don't have knowledge in DDR2 RAM or digital stuff like eeprom, so do I need to have extensive knowledge of how these work or just wire them as needed?

         Generally external DDR2  memory  is  required  for  motion adaptive de-interlacing, Frame  Rate  Conversion  (FRC),  and  OSD  bitmap  overlay.
         When you aware of DDR2 memory then you can configure the DDR2 memory according to your requirement. DDR2 memory related details are provided in the ADV8005 user guide depending upon that you can or you may not use.

8- I want to connect analog video signals such as RGB, RGBHV, YPbPr, S-video, and composite then get a scaled HDMI signal to 1080p and 4k. do I need a video digitizer IC to convert these analog videos first or just connect them directly?

      Yes, ADV8005 cannot convert analog to digital conversation so for this you need an video digitizer to do this job.

9- in case of analog input such as S-video to be converted to analog video form of RGB... will it happen in analog-to-analog form or it must be converted to digital first? how much lag?

       ADI does not have a single chip solution for composite direct to RGB analog.  The nomal chain of video processing would be:

   Composite -> decoder -> YCbCr -> color space converter -> RGB digital -> encoder -> RGB analog
    There's several combination of chips that can accomplish this.

10-it is mentioned that it takes 2 digital video format, one is TTL with many bits and the other is serial video. what is the difference between them knowing that both are HDMI?

     Serial Video Receiver: The serial video receiver(Video/Audio) can accept the output of an HDMI transmitter such as the "ADV7850 or ADV7623/ADV7625"  but this input does not support EDID or HDCP operations. 

     TTL: TTL is nothing but the pixel port pins, it does not carry the audio content.

Thanks,

Poornima

Hello,

thanks for your reply.

Please contact your local ADI FAE(Salesteam) for cost and other details.

I only wanted an estimate, like 30$, 50$ or so... not exact price per quantity. so that someone knows what range is it gonna be in.

  HDMI license is not required for transmitter device.But you would need to be an HDMI adopter regardless, depending on what you are trying to do and you must be an HDMI adopter to buy any AD part which is HDMI capable.

Please check here for the terms:

HDMI: www.HDMI.org

HDCP: www.digital-cp.com

I didn't quite understand this. I can buy the IC itself and use it in my prototype boards or so on... but can't buy it on production quantities like 100 or more? I saw many people use AD ICs in video digitizer devices but I am not sure they have license.

don't you offer an IC which converts to DVI or any free digital audio and video format?

at least I need to figure out how to use your IC and make sure it works perfectly fine in the product, then decide to buy a license to start mass production. what can be done to test the functionality of it? I assume you have a demo board, what price?

  Latency is dependent on too many parameters to give a calculated delay for each configuration. The best solution is to set up the exact configuration you want and read back the latency registers to determine what the true delay is.  This can be done on our evaluation board.

well, low latency mode seems to have 1.4 frames of lag which is too much for gaming. is it 1.4 frames or the number represents something else?

game mode seems the way to go since it has 5 lines of video only, but my concern that it should allow 240p\480i 50\60fps to 1080p\4k 50\60fps (no frame rate conversion)... does it allow that? on the table, it only shows 4k up to 30fps.

Generally external DDR2  memory  is  required  for  motion adaptive de-interlacing, Frame  Rate  Conversion  (FRC),  and  OSD  bitmap  overlay.
         When you aware of DDR2 memory then you can configure the DDR2 memory according to your requirement. DDR2 memory related details are provided in the ADV8005 user guide depending upon that you can or you may not use.

so in game mode and low latency mode I don't need RAM right? then what type of de-interlacing is done when not in full mode?

my point was that I never dealt with ddr memory, so i could just stick to datasheet and wire it as it says, then configure adv8005 to the modes I want. meaning no need to do anything to the ddr memory.

I still require an OSD though, but I don't want it to be fancy. anything goes ok with me.

Yes you need a microcontroller to control the ADV8005 .Here your microcontroller will act as a Master for initiating the I2C Read/Write commands.

ok, so the process is just sending i2c commands to do whatever is needed like activating game mode and output from input 1 to output 1 ...etc.

I think your dev\demo board can show all this easily right? I only deal with PIC16 and ATmega32 MCUs, so no fancy ones. plus, what dev tools do i need to make my product around this IC?

________

so to sum it up, I need a video digitizer IC that accepts RGB (with csync, SoG, SoC) + RGBHV (VGA) + component YPbPr + S-video + composite... then feed its output to ADV8005 then get my digital output.

what ICs you have can achieve this? what prices?

Also, I asked you about a commercial product that used adv8005 if you know one.

regards

Hi VEGETA,

Please find my below comments,

  I only wanted an estimate, like 30$, 50$ or so... not exact price per quantity. so that someone knows what range is it gonna be in.

      It would be around $75(100-499) as per ADV8005 product page.

I didn't quite understand this. I can buy the IC itself and use it in my prototype boards or so on... but can't buy it on production quantities like 100 or more? I saw many people use AD ICs in video digitizer devices but I am not sure they have license.

      Please note that HDMI Adopter License includes the following benefits:

    -> Access and use of the current HDMI® Specification and any future releases of the Specification
    -> A license to use the HDMI trademarks as defined in the Adopted Trademark and Logo Usage Guidelines
    -> Instant visibility and credibility with your company listed as licensed on the HDMI LA web
    -> The ability to participate in HDMI LA sponsored programs such as the Premium HDMI Certification Program
    -> The ability to potentially collaborate with HDMI Adopters in a wide variety of industries
    ->The ability to potentially participate in HDMI LA sponsored working groups, seminars, plug fests, tradeshows and marketing events
    -> Worldwide compliance protection via Customs Authorities
    -> HDMI LA annually-issued Adopter Certificates confirming your license status

 don't you offer an IC which converts to DVI or any free digital audio and video format?

         Yes,most of our transmitter product can convert HDMI to DVI but in DVI mode there is no possibility of audio transmission.

        Also note that there is no possibility of free digital audio and video format.

at least I need to figure out how to use your IC and make sure it works perfectly fine in the product, then decide to buy a license to start mass production. what can be done to test the functionality of it? I assume you have a demo board, what price?

     Demo board would cost around $400, Here you can check the functionality of ADV8005.

     Here https://ez.analog.com/video/w/documents/691/advantiv-eval-adv8005-smz-video-evaluation-board you can find the source code and supported documents of EVAL-ADV8005-SMZ .

game mode seems the way to go since it has 5 lines of video only, but my concern that it should allow 240p\480i 50\60fps to 1080p\4k 50\60fps (no frame rate conversion)... does it allow that? on the table, it only shows 4k up to 30fps.
       Game mode has some limitation like it can’t support scaling and FRC and for interlaced inputs, so it is not possible to convert 240P to 1080p. So in your case scaling is not possible and

        And by enabling game modes will set the output to progressive modes and you can test only interlaced input.

so in game mode and low latency mode I don't need RAM right? then what type of de-interlacing is done when not in full mode?

          ADV8003 deinterlacer only has a small number of lines of latency, it does not use external DDR memory

 my point was that I never dealt with ddr memory, so i could just stick to datasheet and wire it as it says, then configure adv8005 to the modes I want. meaning no need to do anything to the ddr memory.

    I still require an OSD though, but I don't want it to be fancy. anything goes ok with me.

                Please note that without DDR memory populated, ADV8005 cannot do any scaling.

ok, so the process is just sending i2c commands to do whatever is needed like activating game mode and output from input 1 to output 1 ...etc.

        Yes.

I think your dev\demo board can show all this easily right? I only deal with PIC16 and ATmega32 MCUs, so no fancy ones. plus, what dev tools do i need to make my product around this IC?

     Our eval board we are using BF524 microcontroller and VDSP development tool for building the source code project of ADV8005.

so to sum it up, I need a video digitizer IC that accepts RGB (with csync, SoG, SoC) + RGBHV (VGA) + component YPbPr + S-video + composite... then feed its output to ADV8005 then get my digital output.

what ICs you have can achieve this? what prices?

       Please refer Video Decoders Here you can find the video digitizer IC that can meet your above requirement and check the category of video input and output type.

I asked you about a commercial product that used adv8005 if you know one.

    Sorry, I am not aware of this.

Thanks,

Poornima

Hello Poornima,

thanks for your reply.

I am not interested in buying HDMI license or anything, I just want to make a product using ADV8005.

You mentioned it cannot do 240p scaling? this is weird, why? the most important ones for me are 240p\480i\576i converting to 1080p\4k @ 50\60Hz.

I hope I can use the device or eval board without VDSP tool since it costs a fortune. I can use PIC microcontroller or Arduino based AVR MCU to send required I2C signals. I couldn't find any source code in the eval board page, but rather a request form. How can I evaluate all the functions one by one if I get the eval board? Since getting the board and evaluating it comes before making a prototype board myself.

So game mode is not suitable for interlaced? so why it can't do 240p since it is progressive? without it we are left with either normal mode with motion adaptive deinterlacing and low latency mode. what type of video lag for both of them and how much frames\lines?

I can populate a 2GB RAM IC on the board, so easy. but I cannot do anything else since I don't know how RAM ICs work. I can only lay it out exactly as ADV8005 require.

I can invest time and resources on buying the dev board then start understanding the product... after that make a prototype board with it... on the hope that I don't need to pay for any license from hdmi guys or anyone else. I don't have money for it. All I require is a video digitizer IC + adv8005 + misc. components. Is that possible?

Finally, I couldn't see in the datasheet that it supports up to 4k 60fps output. can you clarify? I remind you that my needs is to be able to upscale various resolutions to 4k 50/60fps (no change in frame rate) and 1080p too... from mainly 240p (and its variants such as 288p or so), 480i, 576i...etc

please don't feel discouraged from my long posts since I am really liking this IC of yours, as it maybe my way to make a worldwide winning product.

regards

Hello,

The ADV8005 was designed up upscale from CVBS formats to 4k.  240p is sub-CVBS or quarter VGA.  On a side note upscaling from 240p to 4k would have a lot of artifacts that just will not look right.  It's an extrapolation issue.  480i has this problem too but not as bad.  Check out the various modes of operation.

Any scaling would require the external DDR for frame storage which would be used for extrapolation data at the higher format.  This leads to at least one frame video delay.

Regarding the rams, once connected to the ADV8005 all programming or them and ram usage are controlled by the ADV8005 and external programming scripts.  You not need any knowledge beyond our scripts.

The ADV8005 supports video formats up to 3GHz.  4k x 2k @ 30 Hz has a data rate of 3GHz.  Therefore it will not support 4kx2kp60 requiring 6Gz data rate.

In theory you could override the on board BlackFin and do direct writes with your own I2C controller but the scripts to control the ADV8005 registers are rather complicated.  Therefore the BlackFin is designed to handle the configurations depends on the commands you want to send it.  You could create you own command set but the that would only handle use cases we designed the controller for.  If you have something different then you might have to change the BlackFin source code via VDSP tools.

Regards

Guenter

hello,

most retro gaming consoles use 240p composite signals (and RGB). I know you should have realistic expectations when upscaling 240p\480i to 1080p\4k but even without the scaler, when you connect it to a tv that supports it.. it will be internally scalled to 1080p or 4k. therefore even worse result. All I want to know if it does support 240p or not.

so I need one RAM IC which is 2 of 1gb size to have 2gb, no need to fiddle around it.. just connect it. nice.

are u familiar of any solution that does 4k60fps? looks like adv8005 will go up to 1080p 60fps or 1440p 60fps from 240p 60fps but not 4k. most retro games (my target) are 50\60 fps and shouldn't lose half the fps for resolution.Lattice sii9612 says 300MHz but also claims to support scaling to 4k 60fps.

I still don't understand how to try and use the eval board, so I believe it has a microcontroller inside and can be controlled via usb by a PC softeware just to try functions.

however, if i need to make a prototype board or my own product then i need to write i2c commands myself. unless there is a .c file which has them all ready to use with just changing the format to suite the compiler. I mean for your target users what do they do when they make products using adv8005? do they get the blackfin too and just modify it to have their other features? getting the VDSP is very pricey also, PIC or AVR is very cheap.

hello,

most retro gaming consoles use 240p composite signals (and RGB). I know you should have realistic expectations when upscaling 240p\480i to 1080p\4k but even without the scaler, when you connect it to a tv that supports it.. it will be internally scalled to 1080p or 4k. therefore even worse result. All I want to know if it does support 240p or not.

so I need one RAM IC which is 2 of 1gb size to have 2gb, no need to fiddle around it.. just connect it. nice.

are u familiar of any solution that does 4k60fps? looks like adv8005 will go up to 1080p 60fps or 1440p 60fps from 240p 60fps but not 4k. most retro games (my target) are 50\60 fps and shouldn't lose half the fps for resolution.Lattice sii9612 says 300MHz but also claims to support scaling to 4k 60fps.

I still don't understand how to try and use the eval board, so I believe it has a microcontroller inside and can be controlled via usb by a PC softeware just to try functions.

however, if i need to make a prototype board or my own product then i need to write i2c commands myself. unless there is a .c file which has them all ready to use with just changing the format to suite the compiler. I mean for your target users what do they do when they make products using adv8005? do they get the blackfin too and just modify it to have their other features? getting the VDSP is very pricey also, PIC or AVR is very cheap.

Video chips are usually limited by their input and output TMDS data rates.  The ADV8005 has 3GHz limit.  The Sii9612 is 4kp60 420 pass thru only, no video processing like scaling.

Input signals to a TV never get converted to DVI but to what the display needs.  A custom SoC usually does this.

We can supply the 8005 scripts but in general we don't release them to the public.  Once you get them, you would be on your own.

The eval board has a I2C interface to the 8005 which you could over ride with your own controller.

hello

just to finish this matter, how much approximate cost is adv8005? price is essential since other components will cost some money too like adv7842.

does it scale or just line multiply the input video?

some of your ics could do line doubling which worked for 240p\480i to 480p conversion, maybe this one can tolerate 240p?

does it support custom resolutions or just multiplications of input res?

So i just need to feed it I2C commands to do what I want and nothing more than that?

what other features does it support? such as scanlines, vertical scan lines (grid like, pvm like), simple osd not a complicated one (can be done easily via i2c).

I hope no HDCP is required, only hdmi stuff.