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Phase changing

Category: Hardware
Product Number: ADL5387

Good afternoon,

I would like to share with you a problem that we have in an equipment that we are developing. This equipment has a receiver for an RF input. We are using three of your devices in the receiver stage, the HMC686LP4 mixer, the AD8309 demodulating logarithmic and the ADL5387 demodulator. You can see the schematic in the following figures.

The problem we are having, is that the signals coming out from the ADL5387 (QHI, IHI) change its phase 180º randomly, while we are transmitting. We have the input of the receiver connected to an I/O device that reflexes part of the transmitted power, and we have detected that the phase only changes when we are transmitting. We suspect that this reflected power is the founder of this problem, but we have a proper filtering to the bandwidth of transmission frequency.

We would be very thankful to you if you can provide us some clues on why this device, ADL5387, change the phase of its outputs. As well, under which conditions or setup this device phase changing needs to happen.

Thank you very much!

  • It sounds like the chip might be power cycled during your testing. The 180 degree difference between channels is likely due to the LO frequency divider initial condition being random at chip startup. You may need to keep track of the outputs at startup with a defined RF input to see if there is any 180 shift. Your other option is to use a demodulator without the frequency divide by 2 in the LO path.

  • First of all, thank you for your answer. We kept track of the outputs at startup, and we can see a 180 shift sometimes, but it only happens during the startup as you said. The problem we are having is that after the startup, once the outputs are stablished, there is not a 180 shift unless our equipment start to transmit. If we decrease the power output of our equipment, the 180 shift ratio decreases, even stops. 

    We have tried to power the chip externally, with a DC power supply of high power output, and the 180 shift keeps hapenning. Also, we have isolated the RF input of our I/O and put an isolated input directly to the demodulating logarithmic. The phase shift keeps happening. As well, we isolated the output and it keeps happening... We believe that the problem is that there is a radiated emission in our PCB that conduces to the chip and make it shift the phase, but we dont know across which pins of the chip it could be...we suspect of the OL input, but we put an external OL as well, and the phase keep changing also.

    Do you know if you have a demodulator without the frequency divide by 2, with the same layout? I mean, that we could easily change it without redesigning our PCB.

    Thank you very much!

  • Hi Adrian,

    we don't have a similar IC that is pin-compatible with ADL5387. If you think that you are losing phase because external interference, there are a few additional experiments that you could try. 

    1. Try to turn off the other components in the signal chain.
    2. Try some rudimentary shielding to see if this has an impact. 
    3. Apply a high powered external LO. Take the power level close to the abs max ratings spec, just for testing purposes. If you find that the problem goes away if the LO power is very strong, that would tend to suggest that the problem is indeed leakage and/or interference. 

      Best Regards

      Eamon Nash