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AD5934 Production
The AD5934 is a high precision impedance converter system solution that combines an on-board frequency generator with a 12-bit, 250 kSPS, analog-to-digital...
Datasheet
AD5934 on Analog.com

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Output Frequency of CN0349



		

			

									
					    Muzot
					
							

			
				
									
											
			
			
				
    
			
			
			    	
			                    
                
				                on Sep 19, 2022 
				
			
			
		
    

				
		
    
		    		    
		    
		    		      		            		        
    Category: Hardware
    
    		        		            		    
    Product Number:  CN-0349 
    
    		        		    		    	
			
    Hi,
    

    my question has been asked several times in different versions, but none of the answers given seem to help in my case. My problem is the output frequency of "vanilla" CN0349 Boards. It seems to me, that with the 1Mhz oscillator connected to MCLK of the AD5934, it is not possible to programm any values greater than approx. 7250 Hz into the Start Frequency Registers. My logic so far is that with the euqation given on page 13 of the AD5934 datasheet, the maximum value programmable to the AD5934 in Hz, which is still <= 24 Bit is about 7250. I came across this problem, because my measurements were consistantly wrong and all of them wrong in the same way. Now i've tested this theory and so far it seems to be true. As long as i program values below the 7250 Hz threshold, i can use the registers and get the desired output frequency. BUT for some unkown reason, which i cannot find an answer to, at about 30 kHz the Board just randomly changes direction and lowers the frequency instead of increasing it.
    

    Now it would be just great if anybody could help me out. My 2 questions beeing:
    

    1. Am i right with my assumption that with the given equation on page 13 of the AD5934 datasheet, it is not possible to programm values greater than ~7250 Hz, since this is the maximum value still equal to/under 24 bit?
    

    2. Why is it not possible to increase the frequency above 30/31 kHz? Are there any ways to work around this problem?
    

    If you have any questions i will gladly answer them.
    

    Thanks in advance.
    
									
			        
		
    

				
						
        

    
    Tags: 
                                            
                 hardware
                
                                                    
                 clock and timing
                
                                                    
                 cn-0349
                
                                                    
                 ad5934
                
                                                    
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      •  Super User  
      
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 19, 2022 1:56 PM
            
            
					
      
	
      

		
		
      
					
      The maximum frequency you can get from the AD4934 is by writing 0xFF into all 3 registers.  With the 1 MHz MCLK frequency used  on the CN-0349 board, from the formula on page 13 of the datasheet you mentioned, the AD5934 would produce the maximum frequency of about 7812.5 Hz.
      To make the board operate at 30 KHz it would be necessary to remove the U6 FXO-HC536R-1 1 MHz oscillator and replace it with a higher frequency one (for example, FXO-HC536R-16) or wire in the MCLK signal from some higher frequency external source such as lab generator, etc.
      If the datasheet 16 MHz MCLK frequency is used, the maximum frequency the AD5934 would be able to generate is about 125 KHz.    
      
			
      

		
			
	      

		
		
	
      
	
      
		
      
			
		
      
	
      
	
      
		
						
				
						
						
				
				
		
		
      
			
		
      
	
      

      

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                on Sep 21, 2022 3:44 AM
            
            
												
						in reply to Snorlax
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        Thank you so much. I just dont understand how someone would NOT write something like that in the datasheet. Would have saved me days of work finding that out the hard way..
        

        Anyways, thanks again.
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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        •  Super User  
        
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 21, 2022 11:50 AM
            
            
												
						in reply to Muzot
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        Yes, unfortunately the documentation is not clear and there are quite a few behaviors in this chip family that are completely undocumented. Bumping into those in the middle of a project does create serious setbacks. Documentation limits marketplace acceptance of these otherwise rather unique chips.
        Best of luck with the rest of your project, please do not hesitate to ask if you have any further questions. 
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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        •  Analog Employees  
        
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 21, 2022 1:09 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to Snorlax
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        I had a look through the Circuit Note and the datasheet. It is true - it would have been a good idea to explicitly state the frequency range and resolution of the CN0349 given the 1 MHz master clock. It also looks like there's little to no mention of changing the frequency from a default value of 2Khz. The only mention in the note is "This oscillator allows the AD5934 to excite the conductivity cell with a frequency of 2 kHz, which is well suited for conductivity measurements." (Does the supplied GUI even allow the frequency to be changed?) Again, I absolutely agree that this should have been documented better in the circuit note.
        

        But I don't see any ambiguity in the AD5934 datasheet - all formulas are expressed in terms of  MCLK frequency, with 16 MHz used as an example. The last paragraph on page 29 also explains when you might want to use a lower MCLK frequency.
        

        I dug into the no-OS and Linux driver documentation as well. The only bare metal drivers for the AD5934 seem to be here: https://wiki.analog.com/resources/tools-software/uc-drivers/microchip/ad5933 . (note the title is actually for the AD5933.) This should be considered legacy code, any new development would be in the no-OS repository. It looks like the AD5933 IS supported in no-OS, and the exernal clock frequency is defined here:
        

        https://github.com/analogdevicesinc/no-OS/blob/master/drivers/impedance-analyzer/ad5933/ad5933.h#L116
        

        and can be changed through the driver functions:
        

        https://github.com/analogdevicesinc/no-OS/blob/master/drivers/impedance-analyzer/ad5933/ad5933.c#L194
        

        Similarly, the external clock must be defined for the Linux driver:
        

        https://wiki.analog.com/resources/tools-software/linux-drivers/iio-impedance-analyzer/ad5933#example_platform_device_initialization
        

        Once the MCLK is defined for these drivers, you should be able to set / read back the frequency properly.
        

        Acknowledging this was frustrating for @muzot , hope this helps in the future.
        

        -Mark
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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        •  Super User  
        
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 21, 2022 3:37 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to MarkThoren
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        MarkThoren said:
         all formulas are expressed in terms of  MCLK frequency, with 16 MHz used as an example.
        

        Indeed those formulas seem relatively straightforward, but evidently not to all users. 
        

        MarkThoren said:
        The last paragraph on page 29 also explains when you might want to use a lower MCLK frequency.
        

        The last paragraph on page 29, however, is an example of a rather ambiguous text: it refers to 16.776 MHz as the "nominal clock frequency," while the rest of the datasheet text uses 16 MHz as typical MCLK frequency. 16.776 MHz is the frequency of the AD5933 internal oscillator, so this is the frequency that cannot "be scaled down" as it is not under user's control. When this passage is found in the AD5934 datasheet it is even more confusing as the AD5934 does not have the internal oscillator. And nowhere in the AD5934 datasheet it says that on power up the chip is set to operate from the clock coming from this non-existent internal oscillator. Naturally, this clock is not coming and the chip appears dead. So it is user's responsibility to enable it's operation from the external clock by programmatically setting bit D3 in the control register, but how one would know?
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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							FormerMember
					
        
		
        
			
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									FormerMember
							        
			
			
			
      
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 21, 2022 3:47 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to Snorlax
					
									
      
	
      

		
		
      
					
      This is more of an after thought, but I turned that formula into a little Excel spreadsheet to help with some quick calculations based on the MCLK frequency.  Note this doesn't take into consideration any absolute maximum inputs/outputs, its purely that equation just solved for Fout.XLSX
      
			
      

		
			
	      

		
		
	
      
	
      
		
      
			
		
      
	
      
	
      
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
      
			
		
      
	
      

      


	

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      •  Analog Employees  
      
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 21, 2022 4:23 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to Snorlax
					
									
      
	
      

		
		
      
					
      Agreed.
      

      In an ideal world, the customer shouldn't be have to pick through every bit, there should be device drivers that handle that sort of thing.
      

      -Mark
      
			
      

		
			
	      

		
		
	
      
	
      
		
      
			
		
      
	
      
	
      
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
      
			
		
      
	
      

      

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                on Sep 22, 2022 5:09 AM
            
            
												
						in reply to MarkThoren
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        Well yes and no. I am writing my own drivers and external drivers would be great as a reference but they would not help me out directly. A correct datasheet on the other hand would have saved me days and weeks of work on this project. There are so many "mysteries" regarding just this frequency topic that its mind boggling to me. 
        

        From a customer/engineer point of view:
        

        As I read through the datasheet (AD5934) for the first time, I was certain that the clock speed was at 16.776 Mhz as it was stated. There was no mention of the AD5933 and I only realized that this was nonsense after i read an answer to a different question from  . After going through my entire project and changing everything to 16 MHz (again, as stated in the datasheet) I was certain (again..) that this was the right way to do it and that it would solve my problems. There was no mention of another clock beeing connected to MCLK other than a 16 MHz one (to be fair enough, it is stated in the CN0349 datasheet, but not in a way you would remember after reading through many pages of two different datasheets) and tbh my only explanation would be, that it wouldnt sound as great if you wrote down that this "vanilla" device only manages to get up to a frequency of about 30 kHz (which i wouldnt have minded were it written down). There is NO mention (and i mean absolutely no mention) of a 1 Mhz clock changing the output code after the calculations mentioned on page 13 ff to a message greater than 24 Bit, which means you cannot "normally" (as in: described in the datasheet) write your start frequency / increment to the registers. Besides the many hours I had to put in just to fully understand what is meant by all these vague statements i had to change my code and setup mutliple times for no apparent reason.
        

        Which is just my point. This device is great. It does what it should and it works exceedingly well. IF you know how to use it. Which requires a readable, understandable datasheet. There are many more ambiguous statements (not just regarding the frequency). It would be just great if these datasheet were written from a customer POV, so someone who bought this product could actually use it right away without finding deviations for no apparent reason.
        

        Sorry for this rant but as you can see there was quite some steam building up. If you or any other Analog folks are willing to work these problems out, i am sure myself or even  are more than willing and able to help write these datasheet in an understandable way to improve the customer experience.
        

        Anyways, thanks for all your help again. It seems to work for now and if I stumble upon any more problems, I will contanct you guys again.
        

        Have a great day,
        

        Muzot.
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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        •  Super User  
        
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 22, 2022 1:48 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to MarkThoren
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        MarkThoren said:
        there should be device drivers that handle that sort of thing.
        

        The overwhelming majority of users corresponding in this forum on this subject are building their systems with standalone microcontrollers, Arduinos, etc. directly communicating with the chip. Very few are using the evaluation board - there seem to be no use cases for these chips that would involve PC. Some look for ways of hooking up Arduino I2C lines directly to chip bypassing the board controller of the eval board and, perhaps, sidestepping driver issues.
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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        •  Super User  
        
            
						
                            
            
            				
            
                on Sep 22, 2022 2:21 PM
            
            
												
						in reply to Muzot
					
									
        
	
        

		
		
        
					
        Muzot said:
        Sorry for this rant
        

        No need to be sorry - it is important to provide honest feedback. Many forum participants seem to give up on their projects  based on these chips after similar experience. It is extremely frustrating typing in the higher frequency only to see the chip generating a lower one because the the resulting codes were longer than 24 bit and got truncated at the top without a warning and this behavior not mentioned in the documentation. Imagine how many more outside this forum tried and gave up - not everyone has your stamina to wrestle with this for weeks and write a page-long assessment. 
        

        Best of luck with the rest of your project, hopefully it is going to be smoother sailing from here. Please keep in touch in case some underwater rocks come up.
        
			
        

		
			
	      

		
		
	
        
	
        
		
        
			
		
        
	
        
	
        
		
						
						
				
						
				
				
		
		
        
			
		
        
	
        

        

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