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Extending protection for reverse polarity beyond -40V

Category: Hardware
Product Number: LTC4367

Dear all,

The limit on reverse polarity protection for this device to be -40V is well understood, so an alternative must be found if you're potentially powering from (say) a 48V supply.

Can I ask if a low drop diode in series with the ground connection for the device could be a suitable answer? I'm thinking low-drop Schottky could be used to ensure current flows the correct way through the device. It would apply a small offset to the shutdown and fault pins, but that should be manageable. The OV comparator could also be referenced to the same node. Is the gate guaranteed to be low in this condition?

Something like this:

Any thoughts?

  • Hi,
     

    I am currently working on your case and have reached out to our internal team for further guidance. 

    I will share an update with you as soon as I receive additional information regarding your specific application.
     

    Thank you for your patience.
     

    Best regards,
    Paras

  • Thanks Paras - let me know as soon as you can.

    FYI, I have been thinking about this also, and am currently thinking there needs to be something to isolate the GATE pin completely in reverse-battery condition. I am thinking to leave the GATE pin connected to R7/C1 to a reverse-battery protected ground connection, but isolate it from the power FETs using a PFET which would turn off when a reverse-battery condition exists. This would ensure all the regular protections available on the chip are able to operate as normal when polarity is correct. I have also added D4 and moved D3 to ensure the input side of the device is floating in this condition.

    Something like this:

    Let me know when you can.

  • Hi,

    We will review your query and respond as soon as possible. Please note that due to the current high volume of inquiries, the response may take a little longer than usual. 

    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    Thanks

  • Hi,
    Could you please share the LTspice file? Also, are you able to get the correct results with both implementations? Thanks!

  • Dear all,

    Here's the kind of thing I'm suggesting may work....has custom models in it so you'll likely need to make a replica using your own libraries. LTC4367_Minus48V.asc 

    I don't know enough about the LTC4367 model to know if it correctly simulates reverse battery behaviour - and of course, the simulation certainly won't tell you if you're going to damage the part or other hardware.

    Thanks and Regards, 

  • Hi,
    I appreciate your patience. Upon checking, I cannot recommend the above approaches to extend the LTC4367 reverse input protection range.

    The reverse input protection mechanism of the part is to connect GATE to VIN when VIN falls below GND. When a diode is used to isolate VIN pin from the reverse input, VIN will float with GND. In this situation, GATE is not guaranteed to be pulled sufficiently low to turn the external MOSFETs off.

    We also cannot recommend other solution using a PMOS to isolate the main MOSFET gate. We tried simulating this with an actual PMOS model (Si7489DP) and reverse input protection was not working. Since VIN is blocked from the negative input, it cannot connect the GATE pin to the MOSFET source. In this sim, the GATE develops a high enough VGS to turn Q2 on.

     

    Were you able to complete the simulation successfully? If so, please share the Vin, Vout, and Vgs waveforms for both si7942DP FETs.

     

    In my opinion, you may try using a different approach if your truly need is reverse input protection down to -48V. My suggestion would be to try looking at LTC4380 which is capable of reverse input protection down to -60V and its low quiescent current makes it compatible with battery applications. Use the LTC4380 to achieve reverse protection down to -48V, then after the LTC4380 stage, the LTC4367 may be used to disconnect during UV/OV.

  • Thanks for the reply and the suggestion to look at the LTC4380. In this case, the additional load switch can't work for this particular application so the series combination of LTC4380 followed by LTC4367 is not an option....but it has led me to think about some alternative circuit configurations.

    I note that there are circuit applications for the LTC4380 which use a back-to-back FET similar to an LTC4367 - however, I notice that for the 4380, the FET common connection is the drain, whereas in all circuit applications for the LTC4367, it is the source terminal of the FETs which is common.

    Is this difference deliberate? Is it possible to use the LTC4367 with back-to-back FETs sharing the drain terminal? If so, a circuit modelled similar to the applications suggested in the 4380's datasheet for reverse battery must be possible.

    Otherwise - I may choose to implement something using the 4380 instead of the 4367 - in my application, the current level is too high to use an external sense resistor; I note this can be omitted if SNS and OUT are joined.

    Thanks.

  • Hello,

    Please take a look at this modified .asc. I believe the power FETs remain off in this simulation, and I also simulate the over-ring condition of applying power suddenly in both directions - the transients appear to be contained. Please advise if you think there is something wrong with this arrangement.

    2337.LTC4367_Minus48V.asc

    Thanks and Regards.

  • Hi,

    1. Please follow the orientation of the MOSFETs in the application circuit of both LTC4380 (common drain) and LTC4367 (common source). However, in this case, since LTC4380 handles the reverse protection, the LTC4367 can actually be used with a single MOSFET and reverse input protection can still be achieved. 

    As attached in the simulation below.

    In the case of the LTC4380, M2 in the Figure 5of the datasheet has to have a VDS rating >> the expected reverse voltage as its body diode will be the one to block the negative input.
     

    2. If you want to disable current limit in the LTC4380, you can short the SNS pin to the OUT pin. I understand at high load currents, the sense resistor introduces a significant power loss. Please see info from datasheet.
     

       


     

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