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Does the observed behavior of DCM and BCM mode conform to the internal programming model ??

Category: Hardware
Product Number: LT8316

Hi Folks please see table

 

Please confirm whether the data in the table is something you'd expect? . The data is what we had calculated and corroborated in our test setups as we learn about the LT8316 behavior.

This 92W configuration uses SSR via a secondary||primary isolation amplifier. ADuM4195-1. (using Laux to drive for primary side supply of 5V)

Added  type 2 compensator for FB pin feedback (to stabilize loop) . eliminated TC pin. 

See below at 90W output. yellow is VdrainQ1. Magenta Vin. and blue is Vfb (1.22V target). It is at the upper end of the frequency band.

there is ground noise/ringing on Vfb pin present because i use a secondary board for generating the Vfb signal. (There is no LC filter installed yet. this is for testing purposes only)

The controller holds 24.15V constant from 1W all the way to Pmax. I have not tested the transient behavior. 25% to 75% of Pmax transition.

We found that a minimum of 300-700uF HV input capacitance is warranted to reduce excessive Vin swings. Which translate into 120Hz output ripple. 

Output capacitance is 1400uF. The final version will have an LC filter added which should eliminate most ripple.

Works quite well. However, given the 4uH leakage inductance the snubber is tasked w dissipation in excess of 2.2W (at max power).

The snubber Z and RC types and the transformer (mainly the secondary side) constitute the majority of energy loss in the system.

All this really means is that the configuration will not reach 90% since there are input, output, and control stage losses in addition to the power stage. (peak efficiency observed is .83 to .87 or so)

Suffice to say the technology, while somewhat simple and cheap has limits. (No active clamp, no half bridge input rect, high magnetics losses etc.) 

Lprim =  either 122uH or 160uH 

Rsen=25m

Vin=165V

Vout=24V 

Pout = 1-92W peak efficiency is 0.83 - 0.87

N=4 

Thank you 

Edit Notes

updated table
[edited by: Janus523 at 9:14 PM (GMT -5) on 13 Feb 2026]
  • Yes, the numbers in your table look exactly as expected for an LT8316 flyback at 100 W with your component values. The transition from BCM to DCM at lighter load is what you want to see. Your note about the VC pin is also correct: if the loop is too fast, the converter can become unstable at low load in deep DCM when the switching frequency drops. Slowing the compensation there is the right fix.

  • Hi Ryan, 

    The above set up works pretty well. 160Vin (115-120VAC) reasonable efficiency and stability and good transients. 

    Since this is an industrial application I am providing a series of front end and back end options . Higher efficiency Back-ends w synch rectifier and LC filter for the 100W version or simply Back-End with parallel power schottky and caps (plus oring and Pout controllers). 

    On the front end similar choices. Either a standard passive PI front end w EMI chokes, inductors, and rectifiers plus 200-500uF caps or a PFC 2 to 400KHz boost to 380V with much smaller caps. This is to accomodate large Vin swings and reduce input capacitance by creating an active high frequency energy pool. 

    The 380V=Vin case is of interest since it allows the main converter to be optimized toward a fixed input voltage. It allows my lab work to focus on functional blocks while having limited interdependencies between blocks (plug and play) etc. It also reduces front end EMI sensitivity to back end loads/frequencies. PFCs like the LT8312 or the UCC28050/1.

    When I model/calculate the LT8316 (with SSR, Synch rectifier 8309, and LC) using 380V= Vin, the model remains in DCM mode pretty much from 0 to higher load. But it will not go beyond 25W or so and remain at 12-15V max. I had experimented with varying loads and the Rsen settings all the way from 20m to 50mOhm. Obviously the di/dt (Vin/L) a is nearly 4x of the 120VAC case. so Ton is extremely short given the 160uH.

    However, If I calculate the energy balance for DCM at full load it appears feasible.

    Assume fsw=120KHz as the target frequency for practical purposes. 

    Assume an .85% efficiency target. Vout=24V Iout=4A

    Pin = 112.94 w .85%

    Ecyc=Pin/fsw=941mJ per cycle

    Ipeak = sqrt((((24*4/.85)/120000)*2)/160e-6) = Sqrt(2*Ecyc/Lprim)= 3.43A

    Given that di/dt=Vin/L ... Ton=Ipeak*L/Vin=3.43*160e-6/380=1.44usec (D=0.173)

    Given that Toff = Ipeak*L/Vor(24V*N(4)=5.72us (Vor is the reflected voltage*N(4))

    Obviously the remaining deadtime is considerable at 120kHz, but this shows that the system [given these conditions] is balancing in DCM mode.

    So question one is why is the model not able to scale to full 24V by simply remaining in DCM. (i neglected the remaining voltage drop across the secondary MOSFET etc.). 

    I then use the same approach to calculate the ideal frequencies at full load and BCM.

    Ipeak= (2*Pin*(vin+Vor)/(Vin*Vor)= 2.95A 

    Ton~1.24usec

    Toff~4.92usec which transforms into 162.4kHz. 

    Obviously neither possible considering the 142KHz limit nor healthy for the transformer. So, I either toss the transformer and shift the design to a larger 250-500uH type, or use a chip which utilizes a different frequency dutycycle control. (allows to force Voltage and Current/frequency control). like the UCC28740 which is basically a DCM chip but allows for limited frequency modulation. 

    Let me know if there is a way to get the LT8316 cooperate w the Vin PFC requirements. Or perhaps suggest an ADI chip that does. 

    Thank you 

  • The primary reason your model isn't scaling at 380V is likely the minimum on-time of the LT8316. With Vin nearly tripling, your di/dt becomes extremely steep; at lower loads, the required pulse width drops below the chip's internal blanking limit (approx. 220–300ns), leading to pulse-skipping and a loss of regulation. 

     

    To fix this while keeping the LT8316, you would need to increase your primary inductance to 400–500µH to slow the current ramp. 

     

    However, for a 380V PFC bus at 100W, moving to a Forward Topology with the LT8310 or LT3752-1 is a more robust industrial solution. The LT3752-1 is particularly well-suited for high-voltage inputs as it uses an external resistor for its housekeeping supply and features an Active Clamp. This recovers the 2.2W of leakage inductance energy you’re currently burning in your snubber, enabling Zero Voltage Switching (ZVS) and pushing your efficiency toward the 92–94% range.

     

    While this requires adding an output inductor, it eliminates the "minimum on-time" instability and high magnetics losses inherent to your current flyback setup.