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KCC's Quizzes AQQ287 about throwing 3 dice

1. Quote of the week:"The first five days after the wekend are always the hardest" - unknown

Source: Happy Weekend - Frohes Wochenende - Notiz mit einer Kaffeetasse - Kostenloses Foto auf ccnull.de / ccby.de

2 Our new challenge AQQ287 about throwing 3 dice

Source: upload.wikimedia.org/.../640px-160327_White_dice_09.jpg

The game consists to throw 3 dice and observe the sum S of the 3 top faces. We note P(S) the probability to obtain a sum S.

Questions:

1. For which value of S, the probability P(S) is maximum?

(Example: for 2 dice, S=7 occurs 6 times giving P(7)=0.167 which is the maximum we can get)

 2. Same question as above but in a game with n number of dice.

Good luck and try to be among the first ones!

Also, please forward those quizzes to friends or colleagues who might be interested on such brainstorming!

Please share your answer to view other submitted answers
  • With 3 dice, the range of sums will be from 3 to 18 and the most common sums will be 10 and 11 with equal probability of 27 times out of 216 - P(10) = P(11) = 27/216 = 0.125.

    With n dice, the probability of rolling a particular number on any die is the same and is 1/s where s is the number of sides so 1/6 in this case.  For two dice or more, the number of permutations is given by s^n = 6^2 = 36 for two dice rolls and 6^3 = 216 for three dice rolls.  The sum of the rolls follow a gaussian distribution as there are 6 ways of getting 7 with a 2 rolls but only one way of getting 2 or 12.  The range of values will be integers from n to 6n for a 6-sided dice and the most probable sum will be median value (or two values if the number of dice is odd).

  • 1. Mean value of a dice is (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6 = 3.5

    To know the value S where probability P(S) is the maximum, it must be in the mean value.

    Here for 3 dice, mean value is 3.5*3 = 10.5.

    So the value S where probability P(S) is the maximum are 10 and 11 (same probability).

    2. For n number of dice --> S for which P(S) is maximum = 3.5*n.

    It took me a while to figure out the solution, because I initially (and mistakenly) thought the average value of a die was 6 divided by 2. Maybe my background in electronics is to blame... As we always start counting from 0! Wink

    Thanks for this nice puzzle KC !

  • Great answers and reasoning  ! Thus for n dice, the median value for the sum is n+((6n-2)/2 or 7n/2. If n s even it is just 7n/2 and 7/n/2 +/-0.5 if n is odd. But what is the probability to get that sum? I have to confess I don( have the answer...

  • Congratulations  ! The most frequent sum is indeed 3.5 n with n the number of dice. 3.5 n if n is even and 3.5 n +/-0.5 if n is odd. You are in fact nearly there! The only difficult point is what is the probability? I confess I on't have the answer; and count on a miraculous participant...

  • 1) Enumeration of the results of each throw gives:
        1 way  for 3
        3 ways for 4
        6 ways for 5
        10 ways for 6
        15 ways for 7
        21 ways for 8
        25 ways for 9
        27 ways for 10
        27 ways for 11
        25 ways for 12
        21 ways for 13
        15 ways for 14
        10 ways for 15
        6 ways for 16
        3 ways for 17
        1 ways for 18
    Two numbers, 10 and 11, have the highest count of 27 so they have the highest chance of occurring. P(S) => 27/216=0.125

    2) For n dice the number(s) with the highest count is(are) at the mid range of S. This gives the most range of selection to equal S.
       Min count = n, Max count = 6n
       Mid range => (6n-n)/2 + n = 3.5n
       S = floor(3.5n) and ceil(3.5n); Both numbers are equal when n is an even integer.
       Example: S=7 for 2 dice and S=10 and 11 for 3 dice.

  • Excellent   and with a solid and clear development, congratulations!

  • 1. When you throw 3 dice, max probability is for S=10, 11. You can see this by calculating all the occurrences or by using excel or (better) noting that the average value (expectation value) is 3x (avg outcome 1 dice) = 3x 3.5=10.5 (in the limit of high number of rolls). Since you cannot get a fractional number, max probability will be for the closest integers 10 and 11. The avg outcome of 1 dice is (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6=3.5.

    2. Similarly, for n dice you expect the average outcome= 3.5*n being the most probable outcome.

  • Yes, I agree with your inputs! The relation 3.5*n with n the number of dice can be easily verified for n up to 3. The only pending question is what is the probability (thus the number of times the 3.5 * n result will appear. As I mentioned earlier: I don't have that answer...

  • You have a a discrete probability distribution so you need to calculate the "positive" number of cases and divide it by the total number of cases. For n dice, total number of cases is 6n. Difficult part is to calculate the number of positive cases. Be G(x)= x1 + x2 + x3 +x4 +x5 +xthe polynomial function associated with a single dice. If you have n dice, the total number of ways you can get 3.5*n is the coefficient of x3.5*n  when you, or most probably an algorithm or a tool like wolfram alpha, expand [G(x)](let's assume 3.5*n is an integer, otherwise we follow same process for the closest integers).

    For example, suppose we want to know the probability we get S=35 by rolling 10 dice. By letting wolfram alpha to expand [G(x)]10 , you get 4395256 as a coefficient for x35. So the probability to get S=35 by rolling 10 dice is P(S=35)= 4395256 / 610 0.0727 or something like 7.3%. 

    The max probability will depend on n. I calculated the probability to get S=3.5*n for n=20 and the result is about 5.2%. On the other hand, the probability to get 3.5*n with n=30 is about 4.2%. So the higher the value of n, the lower the max probability, as you might expect by considering that  when n grows, you can get much more different sum results.   

  • Wow, I am impressed  , I was totally ignorant about the wolfram alpha technique. Will dig on it when during my summer vacation... Anywau, many thanks!