2008-05-28 07:42:58 Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56342
Hi all,
I want the filesystem to be in the flash disk.
I have followed the instructions [enabling_jffs2]
I have loaded the rootfs.jffs2 image, and the vmImage, and everything seems to work fine.
But when I reboot, I get this:
Hit any key to stop autoboot: 0
## Booting image at 20040000 ...
Image Name: Linux-2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn
Image Type: Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
Data Size: 886639 Bytes = 865.9 kB
Load Address: 00001000
Entry Point: 00176000
Verifying Checksum ... Bad Data CRC
CM-BF537E>
Why am I doing wrong?
This is what I did:
tftpboot 0x1000000 rootfs
protect off 0x20240000 0x203fffff
erase 0x20240000 0x203fffff
cp.b 0x1000000 0x20240000 $(filesize)
erase 0x20040000 0x2023fffff
tftp 0x1000000 vmImage
cp.b 0x1000000 0x20040000 $(filesize)
bootargs=root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyBF0,115200
flashboot=bootm 0x20040000
bootcmd=run flashboot
My CM-BF537E_flash.patch looks:
static int num_physmap_partitions = 3; // set number of partitions
static struct mtd_partition physmap_partitions[] = // set partitions
{
{
name: "U-boot",
size: 0x40000,
offset: 0,
},
{
name: "Kernel",
size: 0x200000,
offset: 0x40000,
},
{
name: "JFFS2",
size: 0x1C0000,
offset: 0x240000,
}
};
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-05-28 11:41:52 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56356
your erase lines do not look correct
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2008-05-28 14:08:40 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56364
Why not?
The "jffs2" partition starts at 0x20240000, doesn't it?..
I tried at 0x20100000, but it doesn't work.
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2008-05-28 14:27:10 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56365
count the number of digits in each address you're using ... they arent all 8
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2008-05-28 15:46:07 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56370
Uff, you're right, sorry for that silly mistake.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-05-28 15:54:11 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56372
was that actually the problem, or was that just coincidental ?
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-05-29 03:24:42 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56390
Just coincidental, I am getting the same error:
## Booting image at 20040000 ...
Image Name: Linux-2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn
Image Type: Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
Data Size: 886639 Bytes = 865.9 kB
Load Address: 00001000
Entry Point: 00176000
Verifying Checksum ... Bad Data CRC
Sorry for the delay, I only can prove the target on the mornings.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-05-29 11:33:42 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56410
erase the flash and only program the kernel, and then use the iminfo command on it to make sure it programmed properly
what hardware are you using ? and what version of u-boot ?
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-02 03:30:44 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56547
Hi,
I am using the CM-BF537E from Bluetechnix, and the U-Boot I downloaded is "u-boot_cm-bf537e.bin".
How can I programm only the kernel in flash mode with vmImage?.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-02 04:05:02 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56550
use the binaries found in the u-boot project, not anywhere else
i dont understand what you mean by "flash mode" ... just load the vmImage into memory and write that to flash ... dont do the jffs step
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-09 07:58:35 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56865
Hi again, now I am getting this:
## Booting image at 20040000 ...
Image Name: Linux-2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn
Image Type: Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
Data Size: 778532 Bytes = 760.3 kB
Load Address: 00001000
Entry Point: 00144000
Verifying Checksum ... OK
Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
Starting Kernel at = 144000
Linux version 2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn (vincent@canutet) (gcc version 4.1.2 (ADI svn)) #29 Mon Jun 9 13:44:36 CEST 2008
Hardware Trace Active and Enabled
Warning: limiting memory to 31MB due to hardware anomaly 05000263
Blackfin support (C) 2004-2007 Analog Devices, Inc.
Compiled for ADSP-BF537 Rev 0.2
Blackfin Linux support by http://blackfin.uclinux.org/
Processor Speed: 500 MHz core clock and 100 MHz System Clock
Board Memory: 32MB
Kernel Managed Memory: 32MB
Memory map:
text = 0x00001000-0x00105120
rodata = 0x00106000-0x00135a7c
data = 0x00136000-0x00144000
stack = 0x00136000-0x00138000
init = 0x00144000-0x00156000
bss = 0x00156000-0x00162c50
available = 0x00162c50-0x01eff000
DMA Zone = 0x01f00000-0x02000000
Instruction Cache Enabled
Data Cache Enabled (write-through)
Built 1 zonelists. Total pages: 7874
Kernel command line: root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyBF0,115200
Configuring Blackfin Priority Driven Interrupts
PID hash table entries: 128 (order: 7, 512 bytes)
Dentry cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Memory available: 30024k/32768k RAM, (72k init code, 1040k kernel code, 303k data, 1024k dma, 308k reserved)
Blackfin Scratchpad data SRAM: 4 KB
Blackfin Data A SRAM: 16 KB (9 KB free)
Blackfin Data B SRAM: 16 KB (16 KB free)
Blackfin Instruction SRAM: 48 KB (40 KB free)
Security Framework v1.0.0 initialized
Capability LSM initialized
Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
NET: Registered protocol family 16
Blackfin GPIO Controller
Blackfin DMA Controller
cm_bf537_init(): registering device resources
Generic PHY: Registered new driver
NET: Registered protocol family 2
IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP established hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
TCP bind hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 1024 bind 1024)
TCP reno registered
JFFS2 version 2.2. (NAND) 
2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc.
io scheduler noop registered (default)
io scheduler cfq registered
pfx: pfbits driver for bf5xx
Serial: Blackfin serial driver
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF0 at MMIO 0xffc00400 (irq = 18) is a BFIN-UART
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF1 at MMIO 0xffc02000 (irq = 20) is a BFIN-UART
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
arch/blackfin/mach-bf537/boards/cm_bf537.c:bfin_get_ether_addr: Setting Ethernet MAC to a random one
bfin_mac_mdio: probed
bfin_mac: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=0:01, irq=-1, mdc_clk=2500000Hz(mdc_div=19)@sclk=100MHz)
bfin_mac: Version 1.1, Blackfin BF53[67] BF527 on-chip Ethernet MAC driver
physmap platform flash device: 00400000 at 20000000
physmap-flash.0: Found 1 x16 devices at 0x0 in 16-bit bank
Intel/Sharp Extended Query Table at 0x0031
Using buffer write method
cfi_cmdset_0001: Erase suspend on write enabled
RedBoot partition parsing not available
bfin-spi bfin-spi.0: Blackfin BF5xx on-chip SPI Contoller Driver, Version 1.0, regs_base@ffc00500, dma channel@7
TCP cubic registered
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
With bootargs:
bootargs=root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyBF0,115200
flashboot=bootm 0x20040000
bootcmd=run flashboot
What am I doing wrong?. I guess is something about the partitions.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-09 15:54:50 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56882
please read the documentation:
http://docs.blackfin.uclinux.org/doku.php?id=enabling_jffs2
you havent enabled all the options into your kernel that the documentation says
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-11 03:57:46 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56967
Which option haven't I enabled?, this is what I did:
Processor and Board Settings --->
Board customizations --->
[ ] Default bootloader kernel arguments (disabled)
Device Drivers --->
Memory Technology Devices (MTD) --->
<*> Memory Technology Device (MTD) support
[*] MTD partitioning support
[*] Command line partition table parsing
[*] Direct char device access to MTD devices
[*] Caching block device access to MTD devices
RAM/ROM/Flash chip drivers --->
<*> Detect flash chips by Common Flash Interface (CFI) probe
<*> Support for Intel/Sharp flash chips
<*> Support for AMD/Fujitsu flash chips
<*> Support for RAM chips in bus mapping
<*> Support for ROM chips in bus mapping
Mapping drivers for chip access --->
<*> CFI Flash device in physical memory map
(the address/length options are ignored)
< > Generic uClinux RAM/ROM filesystem support
File systems --->
Miscellaneous filesystems --->
<*> Journalling Flash File System v2 (JFFS2) support
I am still getting:
## Booting image at 20040000 ...
Image Name: Linux-2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn
Image Type: Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
Data Size: 779724 Bytes = 761.4 kB
Load Address: 00001000
Entry Point: 00144000
Verifying Checksum ... OK
Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
Starting Kernel at = 144000
Linux version 2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn (vincent@canutet) (gcc version 4.1.2 (ADI svn)) #32 Wed Jun 11 09:38:33 CEST 2008
Hardware Trace Active and Enabled
Warning: limiting memory to 31MB due to hardware anomaly 05000263
Blackfin support (C) 2004-2007 Analog Devices, Inc.
Compiled for ADSP-BF537 Rev 0.2
Blackfin Linux support by http://blackfin.uclinux.org/
Processor Speed: 500 MHz core clock and 100 MHz System Clock
Board Memory: 32MB
Kernel Managed Memory: 32MB
Memory map:
text = 0x00001000-0x00105b70
rodata = 0x00106000-0x00135630
data = 0x00136000-0x00144000
stack = 0x00136000-0x00138000
init = 0x00144000-0x00156000
bss = 0x00156000-0x00162a50
available = 0x00162a50-0x01eff000
DMA Zone = 0x01f00000-0x02000000
Instruction Cache Enabled
Data Cache Enabled (write-through)
Built 1 zonelists. Total pages: 7874
Kernel command line: root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyBF0,115200
Configuring Blackfin Priority Driven Interrupts
PID hash table entries: 128 (order: 7, 512 bytes)
Dentry cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Memory available: 30024k/32768k RAM, (72k init code, 1042k kernel code, 300k data, 1024k dma, 308k reserved)
Blackfin Scratchpad data SRAM: 4 KB
Blackfin Data A SRAM: 16 KB (9 KB free)
Blackfin Data B SRAM: 16 KB (16 KB free)
Blackfin Instruction SRAM: 48 KB (40 KB free)
Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
NET: Registered protocol family 16
Blackfin GPIO Controller
Blackfin DMA Controller
cm_bf537_init(): registering device resources
Generic PHY: Registered new driver
NET: Registered protocol family 2
IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP established hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
TCP bind hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 1024 bind 1024)
TCP reno registered
JFFS2 version 2.2. (NAND) 2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc.
io scheduler noop registered (default)
io scheduler cfq registered
pfx: pfbits driver for bf5xx
Serial: Blackfin serial driver
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF0 at MMIO 0xffc00400 (irq = 18) is a BFIN-UART
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF1 at MMIO 0xffc02000 (irq = 20) is a BFIN-UART
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
arch/blackfin/mach-bf537/boards/cm_bf537.c:bfin_get_ether_addr: Setting Ethernet MAC to a random one
bfin_mac_mdio: probed
bfin_mac: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=0:01, irq=-1, mdc_clk=2500000Hz(mdc_div=19)@sclk=100MHz)
bfin_mac: Version 1.1, Blackfin BF53[67] BF527 on-chip Ethernet MAC driver
physmap platform flash device: 00400000 at 20000000
physmap-flash.0: Found 1 x16 devices at 0x0 in 16-bit bank
Intel/Sharp Extended Query Table at 0x0031
Using buffer write method
cfi_cmdset_0001: Erase suspend on write enabled
RedBoot partition parsing not available
bfin-spi bfin-spi.0: Blackfin BF5xx on-chip SPI Contoller Driver, Version 1.0, regs_base@ffc00500, dma channel@7
TCP cubic registered
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-11 04:35:29 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 56989
then you havent declared any physmap resources and so the physmap driver has no idea how to service things
none of the tiny boards have a flash mapping driver which means you'll only be able to use half of the available flash
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-11 04:44:14 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 56991
How can I declare the physmap resources then?.
I've seen this:
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
arch/blackfin/mach-bf537/boards/cm_bf537.c:bfin_get_ether_addr: Setting Ethernet MAC to a random one
bfin_mac_mdio: probed
bfin_mac: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=0:01, irq=-1, mdc_clk=2500000Hz(mdc_div=19)@sclk=100MHz)
bfin_mac: Version 1.1, Blackfin BF53[67] BF527 on-chip Ethernet MAC driver
physmap platform flash device: 00400000 at 20000000
physmap-flash.0: Found 1 x16 devices at 0x0 in 16-bit bank
Intel/Sharp Extended Query Table at 0x0031
Using buffer write method
cfi_cmdset_0001: Erase suspend on write enabled
RedBoot partition parsing not available
bfin-spi bfin-spi.0: Blackfin BF5xx on-chip SPI Contoller Driver, Version 1.0, regs_base@ffc00500, dma channel@7
TCP cubic registered
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
I thought it was the file "/uClinux-dist-2008R1-RC8/vendors/Bluetechnix/patches/CM-BF537_flash.patch" where I had to change the partitions, but it should be this "/uClinux-dist-2008R1-RC8/linux-2.6.x/arch/blackfin/mach-bf537/boards/cm_bf537.c". I edit it and now looks like:
static struct mtd_partition bfin_spi_flash_partitions[] = {
{
.name = "bootloader",
.size = 0x00040000,
.offset = 0,
.mask_flags = MTD_CAP_ROM
}, {
.name = "kernel",
.size = 0xC0000,
.offset = 0x40000
}, {
.name = "file system",
.size = 0x300000,
.offset = 0x00100000,
}
};
Now that command doesn't appear, but it doesn't work yet.
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
bfin_mac_mdio: probed
bfin_mac: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=0:01, irq=-1, mdc_clk=2500000Hz(mdc_div=19)@sclk=100MHz)
bfin_mac: Version 1.1, Blackfin BF53[67] BF527 on-chip Ethernet MAC driver
physmap platform flash device: 00400000 at 20000000
physmap-flash.0: Found 1 x16 devices at 0x0 in 16-bit bank
Intel/Sharp Extended Query Table at 0x0031
Using buffer write method
cfi_cmdset_0001: Erase suspend on write enabled
RedBoot partition parsing not available
bfin-spi bfin-spi.0: Blackfin BF5xx on-chip SPI Contoller Driver, Version 1.0, regs_base@ffc00500, dma channel@7
TCP cubic registered
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-12 03:15:22 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 57061
I am still getting:
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
Why couldn't it mount the filesystem??.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-12 03:43:04 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 57063
post the *full* kernel log that you are currently seeing, not just a snippet
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-12 04:08:27 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Vincent Puig (SPAIN)
Message: 57066
## Booting image at 20040000 ...
Image Name: Linux-2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn
Image Type: Blackfin Linux Kernel Image (gzip compressed)
Data Size: 773257 Bytes = 755.1 kB
Load Address: 00001000
Entry Point: 00142000
Verifying Checksum ... OK
Uncompressing Kernel Image ... OK
Starting Kernel at = 142000
Linux version 2.6.22.18-ADI-2008R1-svn (vincent@canutet) (gcc version 4.1.2 (ADI svn)) #35 Wed Jun 11 12:21:11 CEST 2008
Hardware Trace Active and Enabled
Warning: limiting memory to 31MB due to hardware anomaly 05000263
Blackfin support (C) 2004-2007 Analog Devices, Inc.
Compiled for ADSP-BF537 Rev 0.2
Blackfin Linux support by http://blackfin.uclinux.org/
Processor Speed: 500 MHz core clock and 100 MHz System Clock
Board Memory: 32MB
Kernel Managed Memory: 32MB
Memory map:
text = 0x00001000-0x001036e0
rodata = 0x00104000-0x00132ee8
data = 0x00133000-0x00142000
stack = 0x00134000-0x00136000
init = 0x00142000-0x00154000
bss = 0x00154000-0x00160a50
available = 0x00160a50-0x01eff000
DMA Zone = 0x01f00000-0x02000000
Instruction Cache Enabled
Data Cache Enabled (write-through)
Built 1 zonelists. Total pages: 7874
Kernel command line: root=/dev/mtdblock2 rw rootfstype=jffs2 console=ttyBF0,115200
Configuring Blackfin Priority Driven Interrupts
PID hash table entries: 128 (order: 7, 512 bytes)
Dentry cache hash table entries: 4096 (order: 2, 16384 bytes)
Inode-cache hash table entries: 2048 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
Memory available: 30032k/32768k RAM, (72k init code, 1033k kernel code, 301k data, 1024k dma, 308k reserved)
Blackfin Scratchpad data SRAM: 4 KB
Blackfin Data A SRAM: 16 KB (9 KB free)
Blackfin Data B SRAM: 16 KB (16 KB free)
Blackfin Instruction SRAM: 48 KB (40 KB free)
Mount-cache hash table entries: 512
NET: Registered protocol family 16
Blackfin GPIO Controller
Blackfin DMA Controller
cm_bf537_init(): registering device resources
Generic PHY: Registered new driver
NET: Registered protocol family 2
IP route cache hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP established hash table entries: 1024 (order: 1, 8192 bytes)
TCP bind hash table entries: 1024 (order: 0, 4096 bytes)
TCP: Hash tables configured (established 1024 bind 1024)
TCP reno registered
JFFS2 version 2.2. Â 2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc.
io scheduler noop registered (default)
io scheduler cfq registered
pfx: pfbits driver for bf5xx
Serial: Blackfin serial driver
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF0 at MMIO 0xffc00400 (irq = 18) is a BFIN-UART
bfin-uart.1: ttyBF1 at MMIO 0xffc02000 (irq = 20) is a BFIN-UART
RAMDISK driver initialized: 16 RAM disks of 4096K size 1024 blocksize
arch/blackfin/mach-bf537/boards/cm_bf537.c:bfin_get_ether_addr: Setting Ethernet MAC to a random one
bfin_mac_mdio: probed
bfin_mac: attached PHY driver [Generic PHY] (mii_bus:phy_addr=0:01, irq=-1, mdc_clk=2500000Hz(mdc_div=19)@sclk=100MHz)
bfin_mac: Version 1.1, Blackfin BF53[67] BF527 on-chip Ethernet MAC driver
physmap platform flash device: 00400000 at 20000000
physmap-flash.0: Found 1 x16 devices at 0x0 in 16-bit bank
Intel/Sharp Extended Query Table at 0x0031
Using buffer write method
cfi_cmdset_0001: Erase suspend on write enabled
RedBoot partition parsing not available
bfin-spi bfin-spi.0: Blackfin BF5xx on-chip SPI Contoller Driver, Version 1.0, regs_base@ffc00500, dma channel@7
TCP cubic registered
NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
List of all partitions:
1f00 4096 mtdblock0 (driver?)
No filesystem could mount root, tried: jffs2
Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
I don't know why it appears again.
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-12 09:39:07 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 57136
you dont have any partitions declared, or you've only declared one partition, yet you're attempting to use the 3rd partition
make sure your command line in u-boot reflects reality with what you've declared in the kernel
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-15 13:01:21 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Bernhard Fischer (AUSTRIA)
Message: 57316
The URL you gave ( http://docs.blackfin.uclinux.org/doku.php?id=enabling_jffs2 )
gives
<a id="this_topic_does_not_exist_yet" name="this_topic_does_not_exist_yet">This topic does not exist yet
QuoteReplyEditDelete
2008-06-15 17:49:11 Re: Problem with jffs2 file system
Mike Frysinger (UNITED STATES)
Message: 57317
that's because it has been moved. if you view the history or search for jffs2 ...